Here's another question I was going to ask at the meeting but forgot about. It's not UNIX/Linux-related but I was hoping for some input.
Does anyone have experience with HDMI-over-Ethernet extenders? Do they work? Do the less-expensive ones work? :-) Should I just get a really long HDMI cable? What's the upper length limit for HDMI cables (1080p)? It would be under 50 ft.
I do a lot of work with CCTV equipment and the older equipment used to use coax and you could use an extender it was there was a baulin Transformer at each end and you could use just twisted pair between them I have cameras that are at a thousand feet of cable that have a baulin each end and the video spectrum is still just as clear as the camera that's 4 ft away from the from the recorder so I would have to say yes the twisted pair extenders were good as long as you have good baulin's in each end to adapt them.
On Thu., Mar. 9, 2023, 8:09 a.m. Kevin McGregor, kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.com wrote:
Here's another question I was going to ask at the meeting but forgot about. It's not UNIX/Linux-related but I was hoping for some input.
Does anyone have experience with HDMI-over-Ethernet extenders? Do they work? Do the less-expensive ones work? :-) Should I just get a really long HDMI cable? What's the upper length limit for HDMI cables (1080p)? It would be under 50 ft. _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
(if googling, also try the spellings "balun", "bailun" and oh I forget how many other ways I've seen it spelled)
The HDMI extenders are - generally - video encoder/decoder appliances: think MPEG or H.something-or-other. So depending on the model, the "HDMI" they support can be anywhere from unidirectional 720i to full bidirectional 4k with ARC. Because it's _almost_ always based on gigabit Ethernet, length is usually limited to around 300'/100m, and the correct spec of cable (Cat5/5e) will help maximize distance, i.e. don't assume using Cat6/6A/7 will be better without testing that assumption.
I remember a thread about HDMI length limits here in the distant past; I think Trevor has successfully run 1080p over 50' cables but possibly with not quite 100% reliability?
-Adam
Get Outlook for Androidhttps://aka.ms/AAb9ysg ________________________________ From: Roundtable roundtable-bounces@muug.ca on behalf of Greg Manning a31ford@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 9:06:11 AM To: Continuation of Round Table discussion roundtable@muug.ca Subject: Re: [RndTbl] HDMI extenders
I do a lot of work with CCTV equipment and the older equipment used to use coax and you could use an extender it was there was a baulin Transformer at each end and you could use just twisted pair between them I have cameras that are at a thousand feet of cable that have a baulin each end and the video spectrum is still just as clear as the camera that's 4 ft away from the from the recorder so I would have to say yes the twisted pair extenders were good as long as you have good baulin's in each end to adapt them.
On Thu., Mar. 9, 2023, 8:09 a.m. Kevin McGregor, <kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.commailto:kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.com> wrote: Here's another question I was going to ask at the meeting but forgot about. It's not UNIX/Linux-related but I was hoping for some input.
Does anyone have experience with HDMI-over-Ethernet extenders? Do they work? Do the less-expensive ones work? :-) Should I just get a really long HDMI cable? What's the upper length limit for HDMI cables (1080p)? It would be under 50 ft. _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.camailto:Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
On 2023-03-09 Adam Thompson wrote:
I remember a thread about HDMI length limits here in the distant past; I think Trevor has successfully run 1080p over 50' cables but possibly with not quite 100% reliability?
Adam remembers correctly: I did many installs with DVI over 50' cables at "normal" rez's (like anything under 2550x1440). And a couple of DVI-HDMI cables (they exist) at 50' too. Since DVI/HDMI is almost the same thing signal-wise, I would expect HDMI/HDMI at 50' to be fine too. Never tried 100'.
Since a 50' HDMI cable is fairly cheap compared to an active HDMI/ethernet repeater, start with the cable. Heck, maybe even 100' will work, let us know!
If you have to go the active repeater route, I would expect everything designed for that purpose will work perfectly fine. There will be a tiny delay, though, with all those conversions (few ms?). Might be enough to bother a hardcore gamer.
(You think stringing HDMI through walls is tough, try DVI!!)
Thanks for all of your contributions! I learned some things.
Some notes: - I wasn't sure about max HDMI cable length before; then I found this article at PC Mag: https://www.pcmag.com/news/slaying-the-cable-monster-what-you-need-to-know-a... - I was in fact thinking of HDMI-over-twisted-pair rather than HDMI-over-Ethernet - In hindsight, I don't really want to have to plug in more powered devices to accomplish my goal and for <= 50' probably passive cable is the way to go - Curse you, Adam, for reminding me about Princess Auto; now there are suddenly 5 things on my shopping list - Oh well - my birthday is coming up - Princess Auto's 50' HDMI cable is rated for HDMI 2.0, which should be more than good enough for my need
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 3:40 PM Trevor Cordes trevor@tecnopolis.ca wrote:
On 2023-03-09 Adam Thompson wrote:
I remember a thread about HDMI length limits here in the distant past; I think Trevor has successfully run 1080p over 50' cables but possibly with not quite 100% reliability?
Adam remembers correctly: I did many installs with DVI over 50' cables at "normal" rez's (like anything under 2550x1440). And a couple of DVI-HDMI cables (they exist) at 50' too. Since DVI/HDMI is almost the same thing signal-wise, I would expect HDMI/HDMI at 50' to be fine too. Never tried 100'.
Since a 50' HDMI cable is fairly cheap compared to an active HDMI/ethernet repeater, start with the cable. Heck, maybe even 100' will work, let us know!
If you have to go the active repeater route, I would expect everything designed for that purpose will work perfectly fine. There will be a tiny delay, though, with all those conversions (few ms?). Might be enough to bother a hardcore gamer.
(You think stringing HDMI through walls is tough, try DVI!!) _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
Better yet, try external 50-pin "Centronics-style" SCSI connector. :)
On Thu 09 Mar 2023 at 15:39:49 -06:00, Trevor Cordes trevor@tecnopolis.ca wrote:
(You think stringing HDMI through walls is tough, try DVI!!)
Can you or do you know of who has the hardware/know-how to read a miniature SD HC card used in CPAP machines?
Overall its but a tiny miniature approximation of the 3.5" square HD floppies measuring approximately 122x132mm (7/8 x 1.25 inches).
In the further detail the ResMed brand micro diskette labelled SD HC has a rectangular plastic disk frame. The insert end has one corner notched off with a hyper small rectangular notch on the same long side edge similar to the old 7" floppies. On the opposite long side it has a small slider to lock or unlock
Unlike the 3.5" floppies which have a slider that exposes the floppy, this one has 9 gold plated tabs at the notched end where 7 have a plastic insert divider and the 8th immediately below the notched off corner has two tabs for a total of 9 tab sections.
SD cards, and their smaller, more modern replacement, Micro SD, are fairly common, and there are many readers available that will plug into a USB port, and most will handle both types of cards.
An online search such as this should point you to reviews and prices for these...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sd+card+reader+usb&t=h_&ia=web
You can pick up a small one (about the size and shape of a USB memory stick) for less than $10.
Gilbert
On 2023-03-10 11:14 a.m., eh@eduardhiebert.com wrote:
Can you or do you know of who has the hardware/know-how to read a miniature SD HC card used in CPAP machines?
Overall its but a tiny miniature approximation of the 3.5" square HD floppies measuring approximately 122x132mm (7/8 x 1.25 inches).
In the further detail the ResMed brand micro diskette labelled SD HC has a rectangular plastic disk frame. The insert end has one corner notched off with a hyper small rectangular notch on the same long side edge similar to the old 7" floppies. On the opposite long side it has a small slider to lock or unlock
Unlike the 3.5" floppies which have a slider that exposes the floppy, this one has 9 gold plated tabs at the notched end where 7 have a plastic insert divider and the 8th immediately below the notched off corner has two tabs for a total of 9 tab sections.
Thanks Gilbert for pointing to a tool I had no idea existed until you pointed it out.
As so frequently, after the learning curve upgrade, that was simple!
Thanks!
Now let's wee how the plug and play works when it arrives! :)
Eduard
On 2023-03-10 09:49, Gilbert Detillieux wrote:
SD cards, and their smaller, more modern replacement, Micro SD, are fairly common, and there are many readers available that will plug into a USB port, and most will handle both types of cards.
An online search such as this should point you to reviews and prices for these...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sd+card+reader+usb&t=h_&ia=web
You can pick up a small one (about the size and shape of a USB memory stick) for less than $10.
Gilbert
On 2023-03-10 11:14 a.m., eh@eduardhiebert.com wrote:
Can you or do you know of who has the hardware/know-how to read a miniature SD HC card used in CPAP machines?
Overall its but a tiny miniature approximation of the 3.5" square HD floppies measuring approximately 122x132mm (7/8 x 1.25 inches).
In the further detail the ResMed brand micro diskette labelled SD HC has a rectangular plastic disk frame. The insert end has one corner notched off with a hyper small rectangular notch on the same long side edge similar to the old 7" floppies. On the opposite long side it has a small slider to lock or unlock
Unlike the 3.5" floppies which have a slider that exposes the floppy, this one has 9 gold plated tabs at the notched end where 7 have a plastic insert divider and the 8th immediately below the notched off corner has two tabs for a total of 9 tab sections.
Thanks Gilbert for pointing to a tool I had no idea existed until you pointed it out.
On 2023-03-10 eh@eduardhiebert.com wrote:
Thanks Gilbert for pointing to a tool I had no idea existed until you pointed it out.
Doh, I thought he was describing something "abnormal". Sorry for wasting the bandwidth. Next time I'll read the whole thread first. /-)
On 2023-03-10 eh@eduardhiebert.com wrote:
Can you or do you know of who has the hardware/know-how to read a miniature SD HC card used in CPAP machines?
A picture might help. If it says SDHC somewhere on it, then based on your description you really just need a way to electrically connect a normal SDHC reader to a "weird" set of contacts.
So then it becomes a physical challenge, with maybe added impedance / timing challenges if you rig up something. (Adam?)
And, although you probably know already, there is open source software to read the CPAP data here:
https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/
On 3/10/2023 11:14 AM, eh@eduardhiebert.com wrote:
Can you or do you know of who has the hardware/know-how to read a miniature SD HC card used in CPAP machines?
Overall its but a tiny miniature approximation of the 3.5" square HD floppies measuring approximately 122x132mm (7/8 x 1.25 inches).
In the further detail the ResMed brand micro diskette labelled SD HC has a rectangular plastic disk frame. The insert end has one corner notched off with a hyper small rectangular notch on the same long side edge similar to the old 7" floppies. On the opposite long side it has a small slider to lock or unlock
Unlike the 3.5" floppies which have a slider that exposes the floppy, this one has 9 gold plated tabs at the notched end where 7 have a plastic insert divider and the 8th immediately below the notched off corner has two tabs for a total of 9 tab sections. _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
In my experience, 50ft at 1080p should be no problem with a good quality HDMI cable (HDMI 2.0 or 2.1) though it is technically over the limit for distance. That being said, it's highly dependent on the equipment at both ends. If the sending side has a weak signal, or the receiving side is poor quality, then distance will be reduced. (and just to be technically correct: BOTH sides send and receive, but most of the data flows in one direction).
HDMI is very much like Ethernet in that the length and quality of the HDMI cable is dependent on the "speed" you need. HDMI in 4K needs a higher class of cable (2.0) and distance is shorter, just like 1G ethernet needs CAT6 and has shorter distance than 10Meg ethernet.
So unfortunately what I'm saying is you won't know for sure until you try.
But to answer your original question, "yes" HDMI extenders work but they are another point of failure so I'd avoid them if you can. Sometimes you have to reboot them to get signal back.
That being said, HDMI cables are unwieldy and difficult to run especially if you have to fish them under floors and through walls, and the connectors don't fit through small openings. If that is a consideration then CAT6 is much easier. It is for this reason that we always use extenders rather than running long HDMI cables. Plus, ethernet cable is "generic" and can (hopefully) be used for other technology in the future for example USB extenders if needed, or just a regular network drop if needed.
Another option is something called an "Active HDMI" cable. These convert copper to fiber and back to increase distance. I personally would use extenders rather than this, but just thought I'd mention it.
Small side note: if you are doing this in a commercial building you should only use "plenum rated" cable. That is fire code.
John
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 8:09 AM Kevin McGregor kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.com wrote:
Here's another question I was going to ask at the meeting but forgot about. It's not UNIX/Linux-related but I was hoping for some input.
Does anyone have experience with HDMI-over-Ethernet extenders? Do they work? Do the less-expensive ones work? :-) Should I just get a really long HDMI cable? What's the upper length limit for HDMI cables (1080p)? It would be under 50 ft. _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
Hi Kevin, here's some info.
-Note the difference between "HDMI over catX cable" and "HDMI over Ethernet". For the first case, HDMI signals are converted with simple processing to run over one or a pair of catX cables. Cheap adapters like https://www.amazon.ca/Extender-Converter-Yukidoke-Compatible-Unilateral/dp/B... for $40-80 do that pretty well but can be affected by video resolution, cable length and quality. Sometimes if you are lucky at Krazy Binz you'll find a pair of those remaining on $10 or $5 days. More advanced adapters that compress the multi-gbps HDMI video signal into a stream of approx 100mbps and encapsulate it into IP packets to run over standard Ethernet connections cost hundreds of dollars+ per link and add latency.
-HDMI max length with passive cables is around 50ft on most equipment, if you're doing 4K resolution later it'd be likely less. Digiparts.ca is located on Sargent, opening hours vary but they have 50ft HDMI cables for $30.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:09 a.m. Kevin McGregor kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.com wrote:
Here's another question I was going to ask at the meeting but forgot about. It's not UNIX/Linux-related but I was hoping for some input.
Does anyone have experience with HDMI-over-Ethernet extenders? Do they work? Do the less-expensive ones work? :-) Should I just get a really long HDMI cable? What's the upper length limit for HDMI cables (1080p)? It would be under 50 ft. _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
I haven’t heard of Digiparts before, nice to see there’s another vendor in Winnipeg! (Colin: Where on Sargent? Their website conspicuously omits an address.) If you need somewhere open after 5pm, Princess Auto currently has 50’ HDMI cables in stock at Panet Rd. for $39.99. -Adam
From: Roundtable roundtable-bounces@muug.ca On Behalf Of Colin Stanners Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 10:23 AM To: Continuation of Round Table discussion roundtable@muug.ca Subject: Re: [RndTbl] HDMI extenders
Hi Kevin, here's some info.
-Note the difference between "HDMI over catX cable" and "HDMI over Ethernet". For the first case, HDMI signals are converted with simple processing to run over one or a pair of catX cables. Cheap adapters like https://www.amazon.ca/Extender-Converter-Yukidoke-Compatible-Unilateral/dp/B... for $40-80 do that pretty well but can be affected by video resolution, cable length and quality. Sometimes if you are lucky at Krazy Binz you'll find a pair of those remaining on $10 or $5 days. More advanced adapters that compress the multi-gbps HDMI video signal into a stream of approx 100mbps and encapsulate it into IP packets to run over standard Ethernet connections cost hundreds of dollars+ per link and add latency.
-HDMI max length with passive cables is around 50ft on most equipment, if you're doing 4K resolution later it'd be likely less. Digiparts.ca is located on Sargent, opening hours vary but they have 50ft HDMI cables for $30.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:09 a.m. Kevin McGregor <kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.commailto:kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.com> wrote: Here's another question I was going to ask at the meeting but forgot about. It's not UNIX/Linux-related but I was hoping for some input.
Does anyone have experience with HDMI-over-Ethernet extenders? Do they work? Do the less-expensive ones work? :-) Should I just get a really long HDMI cable? What's the upper length limit for HDMI cables (1080p)? It would be under 50 ft. _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.camailto:Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
Digiparts.ca is more of a warehouse than a retail store - it's at 15-1865 Sargent but may not always have staff. I think there's even more items there physically than what is listed on the website. The last time that I was there I had a nice, long conversation; I suspect that the employee (owner?) was bored in his big cavern of boxes.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 2:19 p.m. Adam Thompson athompso@athompso.net wrote:
I haven’t heard of Digiparts before, nice to see there’s another vendor in Winnipeg! (Colin: Where on Sargent? Their website conspicuously omits an address.)
If you need somewhere open after 5pm, Princess Auto currently has 50’ HDMI cables in stock at Panet Rd. for $39.99.
-Adam
*From:* Roundtable roundtable-bounces@muug.ca *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 10:23 AM *To:* Continuation of Round Table discussion roundtable@muug.ca *Subject:* Re: [RndTbl] HDMI extenders
Hi Kevin, here's some info.
-Note the difference between "HDMI over catX cable" and "HDMI over Ethernet". For the first case, HDMI signals are converted with simple processing to run over one or a pair of catX cables. Cheap adapters like
https://www.amazon.ca/Extender-Converter-Yukidoke-Compatible-Unilateral/dp/B... for $40-80 do that pretty well but can be affected by video resolution, cable length and quality. Sometimes if you are lucky at Krazy Binz you'll find a pair of those remaining on $10 or $5 days. More advanced adapters that compress the multi-gbps HDMI video signal into a stream of approx 100mbps and encapsulate it into IP packets to run over standard Ethernet connections cost hundreds of dollars+ per link and add latency.
-HDMI max length with passive cables is around 50ft on most equipment, if you're doing 4K resolution later it'd be likely less. Digiparts.ca is located on Sargent, opening hours vary but they have 50ft HDMI cables for $30.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:09 a.m. Kevin McGregor kevin.a.mcgregor@gmail.com wrote:
Here's another question I was going to ask at the meeting but forgot about. It's not UNIX/Linux-related but I was hoping for some input.
Does anyone have experience with HDMI-over-Ethernet extenders? Do they work? Do the less-expensive ones work? :-) Should I just get a really long HDMI cable? What's the upper length limit for HDMI cables (1080p)? It would be under 50 ft.
Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
-
Adam Thompson -
Colin Stanners -
eh＠eduardhiebert.com -
Gilbert Detillieux -
Greg Manning -
Hartmut W Sager -
John Lange -
Kevin McGregor -
Patrick Murphy -
Trevor Cordes