On 2021-03-15 1:55 p.m., Chris Audet wrote:

I'm not a telecom guy, but is this really a concern?

Neither am I, but I would say that yes, it is.

In 2019 the CRTC forced the big ISPs to allow smaller ISPs to resell their networks.

That's only part of the equation.

It's not only about what you pay - or the speeds you get - but increasingly about the underlying infrastructure and its upkeep. You need to look forward before it comes back to bite you.

A million players renting infrastructure from companies that don't give a flying expletive about that won't make it any better, quite the opposite, actually.

I was not getting more bandwidth back in Saskatchewan, but I did have fibre to the home. That means I could, and probably would - eventually - get more. I assume SaskTel did not have a big pipe going to a city with 10k people back then, but the infrastructure is already there for when they want to do so.

Here, I am on Coax. Which limits my upload considerably, although my download is great. I don't have the knowledge to say how far Coax can possibly go, but there must be a reason why new deployments are all fiber.

Infrastructure is hard, expensive, and does not conduct to great shareholder value, our quintessential 21st century religion. So companies tend to avoid doing it unless they must.

That's why Bell MTS relied on copper, and Shaw on Coax. Still, because Shaw is not a big player nationwide, it did have the incentive to grow on markets where it is established. Bell, not so much, especially in Western Canada (a blip in the radar, population-wise).

Now, imagine what will happen when you bring another Eastern fat telecom cat to play around these parts... hell, even small-ish town Ontario was neglected by all of them infrastructure-wise. I shudder to think about what what they'll do to Manitoba.

I hope I am wrong, though. Still, 4th place *has* to care, 2nd place? Nah, just join the table, let's have some drinks.

Kind regards, Alberto Abrao

On Monday, March 15, 2021 1:55:42 P.M. CDT Chris Audet wrote:

I'm not a telecom guy, but is this really a concern?

Some time ago, the federal government believed that Canadian cell phone rates were too high because of lack of competition, and worked to get new outfits like WIND Mobile into the market. None survive. WIND died down and is now Shaw's Freedom Mobile, which could get folded into Rogers/Fido/Chatr.

Maybe the CRTC will decide that the big 3 shouldn't own all the spectrum, and force Rogers to divest Freedom/Shaw Mobile. But to who? SaskTel? Richard Branson?

You don't want Xplornet to get any bigger - they are a rolling dumpster fire in many different ways. I think more competition is a good thing, yet I'd prefer Xplornet went out of business altogether. Or at least nowhere near here. Thankfully, Starlink will probably accomplish this. -Adam

On March 15, 2021 3:01:38 p.m. CDT, Scott Toderash scott@100percenthelpdesk.com wrote:

To whom? Xplornet. They picked up a piece of the MTS customer base when Bell bought them. They haven't done a lot with that yet but there are a couple of stores in Manitoba, and Xplornet is a national company.

They would have to make a bid to pick up any divested customers if/when that time comes but they were successful last time.

On 2021-03-15 2:39 p.m., Glen Ditchfield wrote:

...

On Monday, March 15, 2021 1:55:42 P.M. CDT Chris Audet wrote:

...

I'm not a telecom guy, but is this really a concern?

Some time ago, the federal government believed that Canadian cell phone rates were too high because of lack of competition, and worked to get new outfits like WIND Mobile into the market. None survive. WIND died down and is now Shaw's Freedom Mobile, which could get folded into Rogers/Fido/Chatr.

Maybe the CRTC will decide that the big 3 shouldn't own all the spectrum, and force Rogers to divest Freedom/Shaw Mobile. But to who? SaskTel? Richard Branson?

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On 2021-03-15 3:50 p.m., Adam Thompson wrote:

You don't want Xplornet to get any bigger - they are a rolling dumpster fire in many different ways. I think more competition is a good thing, yet I'd prefer Xplornet went out of business altogether. Or at least nowhere near here. Thankfully, Starlink will probably accomplish this.

I am still trying someone to rave about Xplornet.

On 2021-03-15 4:43 p.m., Scott Toderash wrote:

I'm not saying it would be a good thing, but it could happen. It might be an entertaining thing to watch from a distance.

Until the distance gets shorter and shorter... and then it happens to us.

I think I talked about this at one of our meetings, but it is really... amusing?... to watch this unfold here.

Because, back where I come from, things were the complete opposite. And it sucked nonetheless.

Back in the 80s, all telecommunications were owned by the government in Brazil. Period.

Although the bill was not increasing too much - in a period where inflation was measured in monthly double-digits increases, eventually reached hyperinflation, increases were often under that threshold precisely because the government was using it as a pressure relief mechanism - a phone line was, literally, an investment. Case in point: around 1995, my father was owed some nice chunk of money, around what a new vehicle would cost. The bloke could not pay cash, so he paid with a phone line instead. It was not a bad deal, financially speaking.

To me, especially, it was awesome: my father let me use the line, so I could play with BBSs without screeching noises annoying everyone else in the house. Sweet! I love you dad, wherever you are... you gave me my first "car"-worthy thing before I was even 10 years old. :)

One year later, though, right after it was all privatized, same line could be installed by paying R$ 20 (which amounted to around the same in USD around that time) to the telecom. Bummer. The country benefited a lot from that, even though my dad was... not amused, to say the least.

It dawned on me though that the government can't really run a business properly. Companies just compete, fiercely. Or so we're told. Except in Brazil, because it sucks and the government @*(@$*s everything, and private businesses are all love, sunshine and rainbows.

Now I am going to The First World(tm), where everything works and, obviously, both Government AND private entities are angels! So I move here, expecting to be blown away by Internet (and, well, everything else), only to find out that what I can get for Internet in the province of Ontario is... worse than what I could have in Brazil. And more expensive, all things considered. What?

Well, it was also Ontario, but not really (aka "not GTA"). Also, it was the University residence, but for some reason only DSL was provided. Oh well, bummer.

Then, up north, I had comparable speeds (5/1. vs 10/1 in Ontario), but the damn cap. I did not realize the Xbox would update all games on standby, but I quickly did when I had to pay 3x my monthly bill because I went (way) past the data cap. Ouch.

So yes, moving to Brandon, I was blown away by 40/4 from Westman. At least it was Cable! And 40Mbps, whoooooossshhhhh! And it cost the same as NorthwesTel - sans data caps, obviously. And thankfully.

Then, I move to Saskatchewan, a city 1/5th the size of Brandon. I was expecting the dark ages...

... and I get fibre to the home. 300/80. For around the same amount I was paying in Brandon. And with two static IPs for free as well.

Then, I decide to check out a cell phone plan... and mostly all plans are SK only. And *a lot* cheaper than any other province, even when buying from Bell, Telus and so on. Why is that?

Well, they all have to compete with SaskTel. A Crown Corporation. Government Owned. A fuse blew instantly on my mind. "But the government can't run business!".

Now, looking back, there's one thing Brazil did right when privatizing: it emulated the European model in many ways. And, amusingly, its regulatory agency is one of the few things that actually work (somewhat) properly, enough to make phone service (somewhat) affordable for everyone, pretty much everywhere in the country. Not perfect, but coming from a reality where having a phone line *alone*, like in the 80s and early 90s, was a dead giveaway that you were *rich*, it was surely a huge improvement, to the point where I can see many things it did right even when looking from the lens of a country that dwarfs its GDP per capita.

Back in Saskatchewan, I realized that Government done right can be a good thing, as long as you keep it from "going full retard". Oddly, same applies for private businesses as well. SaskTel is not a monopoly, but its presence tunes down the Shareholders Über Alles vibe of all private telecom incumbents that operate there. Telebrás (the Brazilian state-owned telecom), having no (private) competition, could go down the mismanagement rabbit hole in a way that only the government's deep pockets can afford.

Weirdly enough, Saskatchewanians complain about SaskTel just like Brazilians did about Telebrás, and many also think that getting rid of it and having only private companies would be oh so much better. One of the intangible benefits of immigration is perspective, that is for sure.

Now here, I've yet to find someone who tells me that the CRTC has any teeth. Strike one. It also seem to like paying lip-service to the sheer lack of competition and investment of the main incumbents, strike two. For the current Shaw+Rogers deal, many talking heads talk about it as if it were a done deal, like the CRTC has no say about it... because it doesn't? Strike three.

I don't see them going through all of that just to make their lives harder, to make sure they have to invest more in infrastructure, or offer better cheaper, better service. They could do all of that right now if they wanted.

Shaw, like T-Mobile in the US, had to care because it was not big enough not to. T-Mobile eventually grew to the point where it was able to start being a douche. Shaw is en route to be absorbed by one.

I hope I am wrong, though.

Kind regards, Alberto Abrao