Forwarded on behalf of Dan Keizer. Remember folks, keep your attachments to the mailing list as small as possible. I shrunk the pdf from 500k to a 69k single jpg (it was just embedded jpg's anyhow). === Dan Keizer asked === Well, I decided not to ask this at the round table yesterday as it would have taken too much time and have lots of possible options ... a friend has a friend who has a 14 year old teenager looking at building a gaming machine .. he put together some info and this friend is looking for some feedback I've attached a pdf of what they were looking at as options - not sure where the pricing was scraped from -- but with guys on-line who are in the business would have a better idea ... What's your guys takes on this? I'm not into gaming machine configurations ... Dan.
Yikes, that's barely readable now... And could have been done as a 1kb text file anyway. But I digress. Although hardly an expert in gaming systems myself, two red flags stood out: 1) use of an i3 CPU (pick an i5 instead, i3 will suck for many games - downgrade the video card if necessary to make budget fit) 2) deliberately choosing a motherboard and a video card from direct competitors (suggest getting them from the same mfgr to avoid conflicting "optimizer" utilities) Other thoughts: - the PSU can probably be whatever generic crap NewEgg sells this week without making much difference That's all for now, -Adam -Adam On May 11, 2017 1:26:12 AM CDT, Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca> wrote:
Forwarded on behalf of Dan Keizer. Remember folks, keep your attachments to the mailing list as small as possible. I shrunk the pdf from 500k to a 69k single jpg (it was just embedded jpg's anyhow).
=== Dan Keizer asked ===
Well, I decided not to ask this at the round table yesterday as it would have taken too much time and have lots of possible options ...
a friend has a friend who has a 14 year old teenager looking at building a gaming machine .. he put together some info and this friend is looking for some feedback
I've attached a pdf of what they were looking at as options - not sure where the pricing was scraped from -- but with guys on-line who are in the business would have a better idea ...
What's your guys takes on this? I'm not into gaming machine configurations ...
Dan.
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On 2017-05-11 Adam Thompson wrote:
Yikes, that's barely readable now... And could have been done as a 1kb text file anyway. But I digress.
Hah. The original looked just as bad (I compared before posting) across 3 pages. It took me waaay less time to unwrap the pdf and pnmcat the images vs the time to transcribe to ASCII. I was tempted but don't have the time tonight.
2) deliberately choosing a motherboard and a video card from direct competitors (suggest getting them from the same mfgr to avoid conflicting "optimizer" utilities)
I 80% disagree... mix & match VC and MB willy nilly, they'll still work. However, your "optimizer" bit might hold true if you're tweaking the heck out of it, and the vendors provide said tools vs just repackaging the stock nvidia ones. Since I strongly discourage the use of vendor "optimizers" for all but the most advanced users, I would say just plunk in the stock nvidia utilities and don't worry about it. That said, it isn't terribly hard to match vendors, especially if you use Asus.
Other thoughts: - the PSU can probably be whatever generic crap NewEgg sells this week without making much difference
Ha! See my other post. The PS boils down to "I want the gamut between weird hard-to-pin-down problems through to no-POST and actual fires with my system sooner rather than later" vs "I want to never have problems". Been selling hardware / custom systems since 1997 and learned my PS lessons the hard way... YMMV of course. Funny, the #1 hardest thing to research and source are good PS's. I'll agree with you in one regard, the fancy marketing, high wattage, and high price ones don't mean squat when it comes to being "good". 1200W $200 supplies are usually just as junky as 400W cheapos, just with higher wattage. People are all looking at the wrong specs. A couple of vendors care and "get it", but 99% don't.
I don't disagree with your reasoning on the PSU, I just haven't seen any gamers that keep their system for >1yr before upgrading anyway, and in my experience even the"Blue light special" (ha!) PSUs work fine for the first year. So different conclusion based on different starting premises. YMMV, obviously. The original PSU spec'd doesn't look like junk, but it's hard to tell nowadays. Definitely agree with all your other comments though. (I have had vendor utilities conflict before. In ASUS' case it's not just tweaking, it's monitoring too.) -Adam On May 11, 2017 2:21:42 AM CDT, Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca> wrote:
On 2017-05-11 Adam Thompson wrote:
Yikes, that's barely readable now... And could have been done as a 1kb text file anyway. But I digress.
Hah. The original looked just as bad (I compared before posting) across 3 pages. It took me waaay less time to unwrap the pdf and pnmcat the images vs the time to transcribe to ASCII. I was tempted but don't have the time tonight.
2) deliberately choosing a motherboard and a video card from direct competitors (suggest getting them from the same mfgr to avoid conflicting "optimizer" utilities)
I 80% disagree... mix & match VC and MB willy nilly, they'll still work. However, your "optimizer" bit might hold true if you're tweaking the heck out of it, and the vendors provide said tools vs just repackaging the stock nvidia ones.
Since I strongly discourage the use of vendor "optimizers" for all but the most advanced users, I would say just plunk in the stock nvidia utilities and don't worry about it.
That said, it isn't terribly hard to match vendors, especially if you use Asus.
Other thoughts: - the PSU can probably be whatever generic crap NewEgg sells this week without making much difference
Ha! See my other post. The PS boils down to "I want the gamut between weird hard-to-pin-down problems through to no-POST and actual fires with my system sooner rather than later" vs "I want to never have problems". Been selling hardware / custom systems since 1997 and learned my PS lessons the hard way... YMMV of course. Funny, the #1 hardest thing to research and source are good PS's.
I'll agree with you in one regard, the fancy marketing, high wattage, and high price ones don't mean squat when it comes to being "good". 1200W $200 supplies are usually just as junky as 400W cheapos, just with higher wattage. People are all looking at the wrong specs. A couple of vendors care and "get it", but 99% don't. _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
- the PSU can probably be whatever generic crap NewEgg sells this week without making much difference
Ha! See my other post. The PS boils down to "I want the gamut between weird hard-to-pin-down problems through to no-POST and actual fires with my system sooner rather than later" vs "I want to never have problems". Been selling hardware / custom systems since 1997 and learned my PS lessons the hard way... YMMV of course. Funny, the #1 hardest thing to research and source are good PS's.
As an ex-hardware seller myself (who should have always stayed in software development and consulting instead), I have to resoundingly agree with Trevor's comments on the importance of a quality power supply, where quality means clean, reliable, long-term output, not watts. As for fires and explosions (big capacitors make spectacular noise and white smoke), yes, those events are for real - both I and some customers long ago experienced those, and one cat almost got a heart attack. Hartmut W Sager - Tel +1-204-339-8331 On 11 May 2017 at 02:21, Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca> wrote: [.....]
=== Dan Keizer asked ===
I've attached a pdf of what they were looking at as options - not sure where the pricing was scraped from -- but with guys on-line who are in the business would have a better idea ...
What's your guys takes on this? I'm not into gaming machine configurations ...
Sure, I build gaming systems for people all the time. First, ditch the junk $45 power supply and get an all-Japanese-caps (a *true* one, not the myriad fake ones where just the 400V cap is Japanese). The best ones will last 10-20 years and since PS spec rarely changes (like 2-3 times in 17 years) you can use it in future boxen/upgrades. Wattage isn't critical in modern single-VC setups, so any 350-650W is perfectly fine (seriously, even 350W, though good ones usually start at 450W now). I won't reveal my favorite brand/model unless you buy from me :-) I gotta keep some of my 20 years' experience value add or I'll have no business! But expect to spend $100-$150 on the PS. (I really can't overstate the importance of clean power. Important for stability. Important to provide clean power so as to not stress the mobo (premature failure). I think it's the most important part of a system and most people consider it an afterthought and skimp on it. Good computer + bad PS is like buying a Porsche and putting $40 Walmart bluelight special tires on it. Cheap PS's will have bad caps after 3-5 years, and you probably won't know it until it blows things up. Pick up the PS in your hand and compare the weight to a good one, it's one of those things that heavier is better, and good ones weight 2-3X the cheapos. Hmmm, wonder why... look inside!) If it's major 3D gaming they want to do (vs less-intensive strategy games, etc, for which their choices are adequate) then I would make these changes: 1. i3 way underpowered, get an i5 minimum. i7 for hardcore 3D FPS games. Always buy the sweetspot, best $/GHz in the range (as usually the other important specs (cache size, threads) are constant). 2. H110 is a very crippled chipset, considered the cheapest/entry level. I would do H170 chipset for all but the most basic web/email boxes, though the B150 (which seems to be far less abundant) might do ok. See: https://rog.asus.com/articles/maximus-motherboards/whats-the-difference-betw... The specs that an H170 will do better that matter here: PCI-ex lanes and generation (16 v3 vs 6 v2), DMI3 8G vs DMI2 5G, 4 DIMM slots for upgradability (vs 2), The other specs won't matter for this box. 3. Spend a bit more and get the 240G SSD. I find my Windows users (especially 8 and 10) filling up 120's these days. And these are non-gamers just doing office stuff, and their data is all on external fileservers! And if you're not religious about telling most of your games to install to D: (the 1TB rust) then you definitely need >120G SSD. 4. The Seagate DM series will die on you within 1-3 years, especially if you leave it on 24/7. I'll put money on this! Get a WD Blue if you're pressed for cash, Black if not. You could also do 240 or 512G SSD and skip the rust altogether. <=512 SSD is now very affordable. Also, 1TB is *not* the sweetspot: 2 or 3TB is (4 for WD Black). Like every $20 more gets you another TB on the cheapo DM drives. Now, how to save some money: A. Unless you're tweaking like mad, any Kingston ValueRAM of the max spec your mobo legitimately supports (i.e. not OC'ing) will do fine and save you some money. B. Same with SSD's, if you can save money with a Kingston, Samsung or similar well-known brand name, do it. Second-lastly: where's the Windows license? Or are they using Linux? Cool (and kudos) if they are! If not, buy Win10 legit and save yourself a lot of grief; you can't buy the OEM version later, so if you change your mind you'll need to buy full retail and pay 2X the price. Lastly, almost all wifi range extenders will cut your wifi speed for all devices on the network by 20-50%. Extenders are a bit evil in that regard. Especially cheap extenders that only have 1 transceiver. If you're planning on gaming online with wifi, your latency will suffer greatly compared to wired, and it'll be even worse wifi-extended! Find a way to run some plenum cat6 to the location (ehem, I mean *hire* someone to do it, ehem, cough cough, thanks Selinger). Good luck! If you want to buy local instead of Amazon, you can always email me separately.
My two cents: Short answer: For a budget gaming rig, this looks fine. Long answer: - I noticed that no maximum budget was given - I noticed that no example games were given, and different games benefit from different upgrades - A 3.7 GHz dual-core is pretty good for games that don't take advantage of multiple cores very well; an upgrade to an i5 would give better performance for a wider variety of games - As has been mentioned, the PSU is adequate, but buying a better one is money well spent in the longer term because then you can keep the PSU when you do upgrades instead of buying another one (or buying another one when this one fails) - Getting a motherboard with 4 RAM slots might be a good idea as having the option for adding memory doesn't just provide more memory, it bumps up performance to have 2 or 4 sticks of RAM rather than one (e.g. get a 4-slot MB with 2x4GB then add 2x4GB later) - I wouldn't worry about mixing and matching brands - Of course, a bigger HD and/or SSD never hurts! - Buy stuff from Trevor ;-) Kevin On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:26 AM, Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca> wrote:
Forwarded on behalf of Dan Keizer. Remember folks, keep your attachments to the mailing list as small as possible. I shrunk the pdf from 500k to a 69k single jpg (it was just embedded jpg's anyhow).
=== Dan Keizer asked ===
Well, I decided not to ask this at the round table yesterday as it would have taken too much time and have lots of possible options ...
a friend has a friend who has a 14 year old teenager looking at building a gaming machine .. he put together some info and this friend is looking for some feedback
I've attached a pdf of what they were looking at as options - not sure where the pricing was scraped from -- but with guys on-line who are in the business would have a better idea ...
What's your guys takes on this? I'm not into gaming machine configurations ...
Dan.
_______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.ca https://muug.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
participants (4)
-
Adam Thompson -
Hartmut W Sager -
Kevin McGregor -
Trevor Cordes