What's the cheapest option for a Winnipeg business to get decent (especially upload) internet access when they aren't in a Shaw area (but are in MTS). Right now they have MTS crappy like 5Mbps down and 400kbps up. It's horrible.
We'd be fine with 5 or 10 (or more) down, but we want at least 2 up. The more up in our pricerange the better. Monthly traffic will be quite low in both directions, but we get large-demand bursts.
Price range is $40-$80/month. They are willing to pay (a bit) more upfront to save on the monthly fee, if required.
They need zero extra features (email boxes, web space, a/v, domain, etc), they just need faster internet. Lower latency than what garbage MTS gives would be better too. I already checked with MTS and what they want for more upload bw is way too much (compared to what Shaw charges).
Thanks!
It's amazing how often I encounter similar situations during consulting. The problem is always the same: Do your ISP research BEFORE you buy a house (residential comment) or BEFORE you choose/rent your biz premises (business comment), because once you're outside of primary Shaw and MTS territory, you're screwed.
"Oh, but the price of the premises was so good .....". Yeah well, if that was more important to you than good Internet, then you'll have to live with it now.
Choosing a proper Internet location (if needed) is just as integral as choosing close schools, bus routes, grocery stores, etc.
Hartmut W Sager - Tel +1-204-339-8331, +1-204-515-1701, +1-204-515-1700, +1-810-471-4600, +1-909-361-6005
On 11 September 2015 at 00:26, Trevor Cordes trevor@tecnopolis.ca wrote:
What's the cheapest option for a Winnipeg business to get decent (especially upload) internet access when they aren't in a Shaw area (but are in MTS). Right now they have MTS crappy like 5Mbps down and 400kbps up. It's horrible.
We'd be fine with 5 or 10 (or more) down, but we want at least 2 up. The more up in our pricerange the better. Monthly traffic will be quite low in both directions, but we get large-demand bursts.
Price range is $40-$80/month. They are willing to pay (a bit) more upfront to save on the monthly fee, if required.
They need zero extra features (email boxes, web space, a/v, domain, etc), they just need faster internet. Lower latency than what garbage MTS gives would be better too. I already checked with MTS and what they want for more upload bw is way too much (compared to what Shaw charges).
Thanks! _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.mb.ca http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
Hartmut, you mean "than good cheap internet".
Depending on where they are in the city, there's many providers that'll eagerly provide speeds up to 1gbps symmetrical (off the top of my head and alphabetically: HighSpeedCrow, Les.net, PCS, Terago, VOI, Voyageur, Wiband). I won't start an on-list discussion of the different providers' pros and cons.
But given that Shaw/MTS are already cheap/cheapest and this customer wants to go even cheaper that won't work.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 2:45 AM, Hartmut W Sager hwsager@marityme.net wrote:
It's amazing how often I encounter similar situations during consulting. The problem is always the same: Do your ISP research BEFORE you buy a house (residential comment) or BEFORE you choose/rent your biz premises (business comment), because once you're outside of primary Shaw and MTS territory, you're screwed.
"Oh, but the price of the premises was so good .....". Yeah well, if that was more important to you than good Internet, then you'll have to live with it now.
Choosing a proper Internet location (if needed) is just as integral as choosing close schools, bus routes, grocery stores, etc.
Hartmut W Sager - Tel +1-204-339-8331, +1-204-515-1701, +1-204-515-1700, +1-810-471-4600, +1-909-361-6005
On 11 September 2015 at 00:26, Trevor Cordes trevor@tecnopolis.ca wrote:
What's the cheapest option for a Winnipeg business to get decent (especially upload) internet access when they aren't in a Shaw area (but are in MTS). Right now they have MTS crappy like 5Mbps down and 400kbps up. It's horrible.
We'd be fine with 5 or 10 (or more) down, but we want at least 2 up. The more up in our pricerange the better. Monthly traffic will be quite low in both directions, but we get large-demand bursts.
Price range is $40-$80/month. They are willing to pay (a bit) more upfront to save on the monthly fee, if required.
They need zero extra features (email boxes, web space, a/v, domain, etc), they just need faster internet. Lower latency than what garbage MTS gives would be better too. I already checked with MTS and what they want for more upload bw is way too much (compared to what Shaw charges).
Thanks! _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.mb.ca http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.mb.ca http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
On 2015-09-11 Colin Stanners wrote:
But given that Shaw/MTS are already cheap/cheapest and this customer wants to go even cheaper that won't work.
So les.net can't do DSL cheaper than MTS?
I want to be clear, we don't want monga d/l or u/l speeds, just something better than pathetic. Even 1.5M up and 5M down would be fine (with 2M up better, etc). Anything more than the useless 500k up they have now.
My customer pays $45/mo now for MTS's only option short of their $100/mo next-best plan. The $100/mo would be fine, but I find that pricey compared to what Shaw gives for $80/mo.
Why do we have to pay double to get a non-pathetic (but still not great) u/l speed? Sigh.
As for Hartmut's point: fine and dandy except when it comes to industrial space (which this is). Nearly every industrial park in town is outside of Shaw's cabling. :-(
https://les.net/products/product_voipdsl.php : $175 setup, $65/mo for 30GB of transfer, up to 7mbit down, 0.6mbit up. A lot more expensive then MTS if you're talking just transfer, but a better deal than them if you want a bit of internet with mostly VoIP.
Shaw doesn't go in many industrial areas due to the low density (AFAIK). So you're paying more because you're in a low-density area, which happens in most markets. The competition is smaller scale, more specialized and more expensive.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:19 PM, Trevor Cordes trevor@tecnopolis.ca wrote:
On 2015-09-11 Colin Stanners wrote:
But given that Shaw/MTS are already cheap/cheapest and this customer wants to go even cheaper that won't work.
So les.net can't do DSL cheaper than MTS?
I want to be clear, we don't want monga d/l or u/l speeds, just something better than pathetic. Even 1.5M up and 5M down would be fine (with 2M up better, etc). Anything more than the useless 500k up they have now.
My customer pays $45/mo now for MTS's only option short of their $100/mo next-best plan. The $100/mo would be fine, but I find that pricey compared to what Shaw gives for $80/mo.
Why do we have to pay double to get a non-pathetic (but still not great) u/l speed? Sigh.
As for Hartmut's point: fine and dandy except when it comes to industrial space (which this is). Nearly every industrial park in town is outside of Shaw's cabling. :-( _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.mb.ca http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
On 2015-09-15 Colin Stanners wrote:
https://les.net/products/product_voipdsl.php : $175 setup, $65/mo for 30GB of transfer, up to 7mbit down, 0.6mbit up. A lot more expensive then MTS if you're talking just transfer, but a better deal than them if you want a bit of internet with mostly VoIP.
Not bad, especially when you consider the cheapness of some of the options.
But my customer really needs 1.5 up, even at the sacrifice of some down. Too bad les doesn't offer that option at a similar price. There's a niche to be had here and no one is filling it. Can't they just tweak a dial on the aDSL between up/down to get us more up?
Well I'd argue that there's 7 companies who are filling a similar niche, your customer just doesn't want to pay for it.
Speaking as an employee of one of those companies, we spend a huge amount of time and money constantly adding and upgrading towers and high-end hardware to provide service to areas that are so low-profit that Shaw and sometimes MTS don't bother with them. Those giants have great economies of scale and better margins - once our costs are figured in the profit on a $50-a-month customer who needs tech support may not be worth the acquisition effort. We'd love to give everyone all the bandwidth for free but we wouldn't last long as a company.
The 7d/0.7u is about ADSL1 limits, I imagine MTS is not allowing other providers access to resell their ADSL2/VDSL? network which does ~30mbit down. The ADSL1 standard has specific spectrum allocated separately for the upstream and downstream directions (using the same frequencies for both directions in a time-division format would cause many self-interference issues considering the low grade of phone cable and how they are heavily bundled together). See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/ADSL_frequency_plan.svg . So the standard and the hardware implementations, both in the DSLAM rack at the MTS office and in the customer's modem, control the ratio of bandwidth possible in each direction due to their design for specific frequencies.
On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:33 AM, Trevor Cordes trevor@tecnopolis.ca wrote:
On 2015-09-15 Colin Stanners wrote:
https://les.net/products/product_voipdsl.php : $175 setup, $65/mo for 30GB of transfer, up to 7mbit down, 0.6mbit up. A lot more expensive then MTS if you're talking just transfer, but a better deal than them if you want a bit of internet with mostly VoIP.
Not bad, especially when you consider the cheapness of some of the options.
But my customer really needs 1.5 up, even at the sacrifice of some down. Too bad les doesn't offer that option at a similar price. There's a niche to be had here and no one is filling it. Can't they just tweak a dial on the aDSL between up/down to get us more up? _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.mb.ca http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
At that price point? Forget it. MTS offers up to 5mbps upload on DSL, but it's about double your price target. Shaw offers the same: 5mbps upload max.
Then you're looking at non-traditional options. I believe Voyageur Internet is the cheapest, where a burstable 10/10 service runs somewhere around $100/month but only if you have good line-of-sight to a tower.
Basically, 1. $40-$80/m is too low for anything better than farmer-grade DSL, here 2. Don't live in Canada if you want dirt-cheap internet.
-Adam
On September 11, 2015 12:26:16 AM CDT, Trevor Cordes trevor@tecnopolis.ca wrote:
What's the cheapest option for a Winnipeg business to get decent (especially upload) internet access when they aren't in a Shaw area (but are in MTS). Right now they have MTS crappy like 5Mbps down and 400kbps up. It's horrible.
We'd be fine with 5 or 10 (or more) down, but we want at least 2 up. The more up in our pricerange the better. Monthly traffic will be quite low in both directions, but we get large-demand bursts.
Price range is $40-$80/month. They are willing to pay (a bit) more upfront to save on the monthly fee, if required.
They need zero extra features (email boxes, web space, a/v, domain, etc), they just need faster internet. Lower latency than what garbage MTS gives would be better too. I already checked with MTS and what they want for
more upload bw is way too much (compared to what Shaw charges).
Thanks! _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.mb.ca http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable
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Adam Thompson -
Colin Stanners -
Hartmut W Sager -
Trevor Cordes