Roundtable January 2022

roundtable@muug.ca

12 participants
10 discussions

How does on get the date function to work in Libre Office spreadsheet?
by eh＠eduardhiebert.com 08 May '23

08 May '23

Hi, I've formatted the cells as date mm/dd/yy and entered the values as is. Also tried by preceeding with equal sign in case deemed to be a formula but neither works. I assume a difference between two days yields the difference in days, correct? Or are the formula different than plain math? Eduard the Osborne guy at last meeting

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Fwd: Can a pdf file itself be maleware Fwd: FW: remittance Message Payment Status Notification
by eh＠eduardhiebert.com 22 Feb '22

22 Feb '22

Hi, This is likely phishing spam and passing around for further information. Just opening an email without clicking on anything I understand can be safe. I would rather ask than be sorry. Is this also true of pdf files? If someone can open safely I would like to have a sense who is behind this one. Thanks, Eduard -------- Forwarded Message -------- SUBJECT: FW: remittance Message Payment Status Notification DATE: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 06:15:45 +0800 FROM: … [View More]

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PHP undefined vars / array indices
by Trevor Cordes 24 Jan '22

24 Jan '22

Any PHP coders out there? So PHP really did it in 8.0: They really made accessing undefined vars *and* array indices a full warning rather than a notice. I had written in past newsletters that I hoped this didn't mean what it sounded like it meant. But it does. They really did it. https://wiki.php.net/rfc/engine_warnings I finally had to face the music with the upgraded MUUG server which now uses PHP8. It was coming for me in Fedora 25 anyhow (maybe 4 more months to postpone that change).… [View More] The MUUG server is about 80% code that Allan Pollard wrote (thanks Allan!) and 20% my own code. Neither wrote according to PHP8's magic new requirements. Anyone here who does PHP and hasn't treated it as a typed / declared language, because it is not one, is in for a great deal of pain when they are forced to upgrade to PHP 8. I'm not sure I've ever come across existing PHP code where the dev treated it as a language where you must pre-declare everything. Of course, such people must exist, as exhibited by the voting record for this PHP RFC. Perhaps they are people who only recently took up PHP and/or are coming from stricter languages. And that is my main beef: if you want a strict language, use a strict language. Why take a loose language, which has always been loose and is loose by design, and suddenly make a major change that is going to spew out errors all over everyone's screen (if display_errors is on) for 90% of all legacy code? If I want strict variable declaration, I'll use one of the zillion languages that force you, and even do nice compile-time checks for you. And you just know that while, at the moment, this change is limited to making it a warning, the tyrants are itching to make this a full explosion error. You can see it in the voting ("Change undefined variable severity to?": vote 36 to 28). Luckily for us PHP requires a 2/3 majority to pass an RFC. To "fix" these errors in code, you can in most cases use a lot of tricks, like massive use of ?? everywhere. But that makes the code look really ugly and I start to question why? And if you use list() to capture results of a function which can return variable type of variable length arrays, you're really in trouble as there's no current syntax to combine ?? or isset() with that. Sure, you can go in and turn your PHP into C by pre-declaring every variable, if you can spot them all in complex functions or global scope code. But that only helps you with the "undefined variables" thing, not the "undefined array index" thing. The latter is far more insidious because your index can be a variable itself! So for that case you must always use isset() or ?? or some other trick. I could go into more examples of what I had to do to the MUUG code if anyone is interested. So what can you do in the real world? The first thing you do is turn off display_errors, which is probably off on production boxes anyhow (but wasn't on "hobby" boxes like MUUG, but it is now). Then make sure those warnings are being logged. Then sit back and let people use your site and wait for the MBs of log lines saying undefined this and that. Then you have a choice: a) ignore it all and set your logrotate to a short period of time so you don't fill your log disks; or b) fix every error that shows up. I did (b) on MUUG and it's not fun, and that's just a small code base. In either case you must pray the PHP tyrants don't soon vote this into a runtime exception error, as when you retrofit your old code you're almost never going to find every instance of this. Compare this situation with perl strict. Perl introduced "strict" mode with "use strict" a long time ago. That makes you my() every variable and its dog or you get a full blown error. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect array indices. In any event, if you don't agree with the perl devs, you just write "no strict" (or just disable this specific strict). No tyrrany. Freedom and choice. Perl, like PHP has never been strictly typed or declared. Perl will never force you to use strict. Never. So why is PHP? PHP could have made it a configurable option. It would be really easy. But they didn't. I have some projects with over 100k lines of PHP code. The simple fact that "fixing" this will make my code look extremely ugly, harder to read, less maintainable, and probably more prone to bugs is all the reason I need to decide that I will never "fix" my code. Not to mention it will be probably 20k lines of code that need to be "fixed", and it's a pointless pursuit because in the end I'll never find them all. (grep -P '\[' ... ya right.) So it will be log & ignore, or not log at all (though I still will need to see legit warnings somehow); or git clone php and change 2 lines of code and maintain my own version forever. In fact, it may be time to do a fork of PHP: sane-php or something. Lastly, I'm willing to debate the philosophical points, especially using the RFC's wording as a basis; however, I'm not sure anyone is interested in taking the other side (please, hardcore PHP programmers only). I'll leave you with the arrogant wording from the RFC: In most cases, accessing an undefined variable is a severe programming error. The current low classification is a legacy from the Dark Ages of PHP, where features like register_globals made conditionally defined variables more typical, and code quality standards were lower. [...] However, throwing an exception may complicate the upgrading of legacy code that currently suppresses the generation of notices wholesale, as the issue can no longer be ignored. Some people have even suggested that the use of undefined variables is a legitimate coding style choice. "Legacy", "Dark Ages" indeed. Nice framing. "Legitimate coding style choice." How gracious. 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Re: [RndTbl] Electronic filling in Manitoba Public Insurance Forms: Billing Travel etc medical expenses
by eh＠eduardhiebert.com 21 Jan '22

21 Jan '22

I use a different email program for these MUUG exchanges and for whatever reason the bells and whistles said it was sending to the group, but after the fact appears it was only sent to Adam. So my apologies I hereby correct my error. Eduard -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RndTbl] Electronic filling in Manitoba Public Insurance Forms: Billing Travel etc medical expenses Date: 2022-01-21 04:52 From: eh(a)eduardhiebert.com To: Adam Thompson <athompso(a)athompso.net> … [View More]Reply-To: roundtable(a)muug.ca In short, Adam thanks for sharing of your insight and experience. As a result of your timeliness, as you can see, thanks to yours I will now have an early start. Simultaneously I will add I am literally on an unrelated task focusing on toolmaking, both its functional capacities to do more with less effort. But in short, in areas of my own life, like you I too have more than enough history of been there done that working my way into dead ends. But of course not always Hope can spring eternal and through the collective of MUUG I am now a more comfortable user of safe email and with you having so much more tech background in the area now under discussion, as can be seen from my request, did not want to leave a reasonable stone unturned. But many thanks for turning this stone for me without me having to repeat history. Many thanks and this in such a timely way! Truly Happy New Year to one and all as we do individually and collectively what reasonably can be done, including so to say chewing our own food. Thanks! Eduard On 2022-01-20 20:28, Adam Thompson wrote: > [Replying off-list, since it's not even remotely UNIX-related.] > > Been there, done that. You may as well start the manual filling, > typing, or writing as soon as you get up. Sorry :-( > I'm *very* familiar with those MS Word "forms" that aren't really > forms in any programmatic sense. You could write an app in VBA to do > it, but that would take a LOT longer than just filling them out > yourself. (I should know, I tried.) > MPI takes handwritten forms as well as typed or filled out in MS Word. > (Not everyone has a computer, or Word, or a working printer, or...) > That may or may not be easier for you - depends on how fast you type > and mouse versus how fast you can write, I guess? > -Adam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roundtable <roundtable-bounces(a)muug.ca> On Behalf Of > eh(a)eduardhiebert.com > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:40 PM > To: roundtable(a)muug.ca > Subject: [RndTbl] Electronic filling in Manitoba Public Insurance > Forms: Billing Travel etc medical expenses > > With all that knowledge among members, if readily and easily possible > without a significant learning curve, can anyone direct me to a program > or how to, to easily transfer data I already have in a text file to the > attached forms? > > MPI has refused my multi pages of billings unless literally on their > forms as attached. > > I plan on doing it tomorrow and will start the manual method as my last > resort by noon. > > Thanks, > > Eduard [View Less]

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Electronic filling in Manitoba Public Insurance Forms: Billing Travel etc medical expenses
by eh＠eduardhiebert.com 21 Jan '22

21 Jan '22

With all that knowledge among members, if readily and easily possible without a significant learning curve, can anyone direct me to a program or how to, to easily transfer data I already have in a text file to the attached forms? MPI has refused my multi pages of billings unless literally on their forms as attached. I plan on doing it tomorrow and will start the manual method as my last resort by noon. Thanks, Eduard

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HDDs FS
by Sean Cody 15 Jan '22

15 Jan '22

Hey folks, I have a decent pile of 1,2,3 and a smaller set of 4TB & 6TB 3.5" SATA drives that could use some new homes next week. $10/TB, message me _off_list_. Also have some smaller SAS/2.5", and some 24" monitors left (open to non-insulting offers). -- Sean

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Need help accessing meeting tonit Re: [Muug] Reminder: MUUG Online Meeting, Tonight, Jan 11, 7:30pm -
by eh＠eduardhiebert.com 12 Jan '22

12 Jan '22

Hi I need some help to access the forum. I like the idea that this will not be a zOOm/gOOgle prying eyes event, however in the past I could log on, etc but apparantly not be seen wanting to ask a question. Nor was the mike option responded to as if mute at the receiving end even though turned on. Would someone be willing to do some hand-holding, maybe via phone or if necessary with access to my screen to resolve whatever the bugaboo might me? Please email me so we can exchange further … [View More]

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Reminder: MUUG Online Meeting, Tonight, Jan 11, 7:30pm -- Netdisco and LibreNMS
by Gilbert E. Detillieux 11 Jan '22

11 Jan '22

A reminder that the MUUG online meeting will be on BBB this evening... The Manitoba UNIX User Group (MUUG) will be holding its next monthly meeting online, on Tuesday, January 11th, at 7:30pm: Network Monitoring with Netdisco and LibreNMS Netdisco is "a web-based network management tool suitable for small to very large networks." LibreNMS is "a fully featured network monitoring system that provides a wealth of features and device support." Which one is right for you? The … [View More]

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Re: [RndTbl] [Muug] MUUG server maintenance - starting Friday
by Trevor Cordes 10 Jan '22

10 Jan '22

(I'm reposting here for John Lange, who accidentally posted to muug-announce) ==== Good work Adam (and team). Also thanks to the sponsors. Question; in your old vs new comparison you didn't mention OS. Curious what that is? John

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MUUG Online Meeting, Tuesday, Jan 11, 7:30pm -- Netdisco and LibreNMS
by Gilbert E. Detillieux 04 Jan '22

04 Jan '22

The Manitoba UNIX User Group (MUUG) will be holding its next monthly meeting online, on Tuesday, January 11th, at 7:30pm: Network Monitoring with Netdisco and LibreNMS Netdisco is "a web-based network management tool suitable for small to very large networks." LibreNMS is "a fully featured network monitoring system that provides a wealth of features and device support." Which one is right for you? The answer to that depends on what you're looking to monitor. In this … [View More]

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Roundtable January 2022