On 2013-01-21 Robert Dyck wrote:

It's not just messages you posted. I checked, there were 2 messages with the subject "Dimensional hard drives?" after mine. I didn't receive them, but they're in the archive.

I checked and I seem to be getting everything ok, including my own posts. Mail servers (like Shaw's, Gmail's, etc) are getting more stupid, faulty and aggressive with their attempts to combat spam.

I advocate running your own mail server. Then at least you can check logs to see exactly what happened.

Hi all,

Thanks for the continuing quest. I've done some more send/receive experiments outside of RoundTable in the last 48 hours, but the results, while somewhat inconsistent, have left me with no conclusions to report here, nor even definitive data to present here.

So, please keep at it, since I'm not the only one reporting this problem. Can we at least determine whether or not everyone with this problem is using Gmail? I still have some suspicions in that regard, though not my original simple thought of duplicate on unique message ID.

Hartmut Sager

On 22 January 2013 10:08, Gilbert E. Detillieux gedetil@cs.umanitoba.cawrote:

On 2013-01-21 23:15, Adam Thompson wrote:

...

Once the mailman software has had its way with your message, it is no longer the same (identical) message so that isn't the case in any event. However, you're the third person lately to complain about missing their own posts. Gilbert/Bill, is it possible the list default setting for self-copy got changed? I don't know where to look...

I just checked the General Options Section for the roundtable mailing list, and the only relevant settings there are default options for new members joining the list. After that, it's a per subscriber setting, which should only get changed when the individual subscriber changes them explicitly. (The "do not send a copy of a member's own post" setting is off by default, in any case.)

I checked the mail queue and mail server log file, and I can't see a problem on the MUUG server's end. I'm not sure what's happening to the messages that aren't being delivered. My guess is that it may have to do with delays on forwarding servers, as appeared to be the problem that Kevin was having last week.

Gilbert

Hartmut W Sager hwsager@marityme.net wrote:

...

Hi Bill, OK, thanks for checking. I just now checked the MUUG RoundTable and Asterisk archives (for Jan 2013), and indeed, my postings are all there. But, my postings of the last several days have not come back into my Inbox, even though they have previously done so. I haven't recently changed my e-mail system in any way that I can remember, and certainly not in any significant way. Nonetheless, I do now have a new suspicion. I'm using Gmail as my main e-mail infrastructure (and have been for over half a year) (with my own e-mail addresses at my own domains), and I know all about their "labels" and about unique message ID's in e-mail at large. And, Gmail tries to avoid storing duplicates, simply applying multiple labels instead (elegant! - too bad IMAP didn't think of that). In the past, my MUUG RoundTable and Asterisk postings did come back into my Inbox, but were identified by Gmail (as evidenced by labels) as being the same messages I sent out. I'm wondering whether, for some unknown reason, these incoming postings now no longer get the Inbox label? But if so, then why? Hartmut Sager On 21 January 2013 22:04, Bill Reid <billreid@shaw.ca mailto:billreid@shaw.ca> wrote:

There are no pending requests at this time.

On 21/01/13 20:00, Hartmut W Sager wrote:

    Oh no, now it's my turn!  Help!  My last several postings in the
    last two
    days to both RoundTable and Asterisk (mainly replies) have not
    shown up at all.
    What's going on???
    (Sorry to the additional cc's I added here, but it's in case
    this doesn't reach
    RoundTable.)
    Hartmut Sager

-- Gilbert E. Detillieux E-mail: gedetil@muug.mb.ca Manitoba UNIX User Group Web: http://www.muug.mb.ca/ PO Box 130 St-Boniface Phone: (204)474-8161 Winnipeg MB CANADA R2H 3B4 Fax: (204)474-7609 ______________________________**_________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable@muug.mb.ca http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/**listinfo/roundtablehttp://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable

Aha, some consistent details are emerging.

I should add, that Gmail has been making occasional subtle behavioural adjustments even in the half-plus year that it has become my main e-mail infrastructure.

(I've been subscribed to Gmail for many years, but I had been using Yahoo Mail as my main e-mail infrastructure for 6 years until I finally got fed up with their bugs and shortcomings, many of which came along in the last two years. I wrote to Yahoo giving details, but their responding staff were idiots who didn't even get some of my points. I presume they have more intelligence at their infrastructure end, but still no match for the Gmail experts.)

Back to Gmail. One area of subtle adjustment I've noticed is in the Sent label (I almost wrote folder!). Current behaviour is, that incoming e-mail does get the Sent label (as well as possibly but not necessarily the Inbox label) if the From field matches any of the valid From addresses I've set up in Gmail. Yes, even if I didn't send it out from my Gmail!!! Now admittedly, this is sometimes nice, since I'm trying to make Gmail my entire life e-mail repository (and have imported most of my older e-mails). I don't know whether this Sent labelling adjusts dynamically on existing e-mail when I add/delete From addresses in Gmail - a good experiment for a rainy day. And I have yet to figure out the exact criteria for applying or not applying the Inbox label when it decides that I sent the e-mail from somewhere else.

(Re forwarding vs. POP3: I'm forwarding my many marityme.net addresses to my Gmail. I am POP3'ing a few non-marityme.net addresses of mine.)

So, could all this be the cause of our problems, possibly with a recent Gmail behavioural adjustment?

Hartmut Sager

On 22 January 2013 23:51, Adam Thompson athompso@athompso.net wrote:

AFAIK at this moment, only gmail users are affected, and of those, only those users who get the email sent to a non-gmail.com address (such as yourself) which then gets forwarded (or retrieved via POP3).****

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-Adam Thompson****

athompso@athompso.net****

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*From:* hwsager@gmail.com [mailto:hwsager@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Hartmut W Sager *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:16 PM *To:* Continuation of Round Table discussion *Cc:* Adam Thompson; billreid@shaw.ca; Gilbert E Detillieux *Subject:* Re: [RndTbl] Lost messages/postings****

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So, please keep at it, since I'm not the only one reporting this problem. Can we at least determine whether or not everyone with this problem is using Gmail? I still have some suspicions in that regard, though not my original simple thought of duplicate on unique message ID.****