Do you control the bare copper at each end? Adtran as a product called "ActivReach" which delivers up to 100Mbit POE over CAT3 style wiring. Speed varies depending on the number of pairs and the distance.

https://www.adtran.com/web/page/portal/Adtran/group/4396

"Data connectivity of 10/100 Mbps over one, two, or four pair of voice-grade cabling (ActivReach mode)"

John


On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Brock Wolfe <obwolfe@shaw.ca> wrote:
Are there any reasons for not considering commercial (backbone) wireless gear for connecting points.  It is a common practice for multi-building sites where project funds (or other constraints) prevent wired/fibre connections between buildings.



On 9/29/2015 10:48 AM, roundtable-request@muug.mb.ca wrote:
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Today's Topics:

    1. aggregating dsl lines (Trevor Cordes)
    2. Re: aggregating dsl lines (Colin Stanners)
    3. Re: aggregating dsl lines (Robert Keizer)
    4. Re: aggregating dsl lines (Adam Thompson)
    5. Re: aggregating dsl lines (Adam Thompson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 04:18:54 -0500
From: Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca>
To: MUUG RndTbl <roundtable@muug.mb.ca>
Subject: [RndTbl] aggregating dsl lines
Message-ID: <20150929091854.GA13606@pog.tecnopolis.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Is it possible to aggregate DSL lines, to combine them to get X-times the
bandwidth on a single link?  In this situation, I control both ends, the
DSLAM and the DSL modem side on the other end of some POTS runs (CAT3-ish
I assume, or worse).

Note, I don't want load balancing or fancy routing/sharing.  I need double
(or more) the bandwidth for a single application (single TCP connection).

If required, we can have linux/bsd boxes we control at either end of the
links.

If it's not possible, does anyone have any other ideas for somehow getting
better bandwidth out of 500m POTS wires (quantity 4)?

Thanks!


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 07:09:51 -0500
From: Colin Stanners <cstanners@gmail.com>
To: Continuation of Round Table discussion <roundtable@muug.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: [RndTbl] aggregating dsl lines
Message-ID:
        <CAPoOROw+CvZAq_O2T+b0M7zukSEaydm10KzYCd6=fougATzkyg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

At layers 2/3 you can do Multilink PPP or even something wierd and
questionably reliable like LACP over Ethernet-over-IP over the individual
connections, but given that it's only 500m and you control both ends the
best solution would likely be at
http://www.netsys-direct.com/Ethernet_Extenders_s/1814.htm , particularly
http://www.netsys-direct.com/product_p/nv-600ekit.htm

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 4:18 AM, Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca> wrote:

Is it possible to aggregate DSL lines, to combine them to get X-times the
bandwidth on a single link?  In this situation, I control both ends, the
DSLAM and the DSL modem side on the other end of some POTS runs (CAT3-ish
I assume, or worse).

Note, I don't want load balancing or fancy routing/sharing.  I need double
(or more) the bandwidth for a single application (single TCP connection).

If required, we can have linux/bsd boxes we control at either end of the
links.

If it's not possible, does anyone have any other ideas for somehow getting
better bandwidth out of 500m POTS wires (quantity 4)?

Thanks!
_______________________________________________
Roundtable mailing list
Roundtable@muug.mb.ca
http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable

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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 07:44:25 -0500
From: Robert Keizer <robert@keizer.ca>
To: Continuation of Round Table discussion <roundtable@muug.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: [RndTbl] aggregating dsl lines
Message-ID:
        <CACf6nbiM=q7ww0u4iWscjgP1fG7E81trd1SVqHA_1+8pfPANgg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

If you can put a box at both ends you can do compression between them with
an arbitrary size lookup table that is dynamic based on the traffic.

To get the single TCP connection going over both you'll need to go up the
stack - PPP or ipsec is what I would go with. You can't get away with a
simple carp system unfortunately.

Either way I don't see how you don't have ecmp or similar over the lower
link and run a tunnel with IP inside it.

Rob
On Sep 29, 2015 7:10 AM, "Colin Stanners" <cstanners@gmail.com> wrote:

At layers 2/3 you can do Multilink PPP or even something wierd and
questionably reliable like LACP over Ethernet-over-IP over the individual
connections, but given that it's only 500m and you control both ends the
best solution would likely be at
http://www.netsys-direct.com/Ethernet_Extenders_s/1814.htm ,
particularly  http://www.netsys-direct.com/product_p/nv-600ekit.htm

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 4:18 AM, Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca>
wrote:

Is it possible to aggregate DSL lines, to combine them to get X-times the
bandwidth on a single link?  In this situation, I control both ends, the
DSLAM and the DSL modem side on the other end of some POTS runs (CAT3-ish
I assume, or worse).

Note, I don't want load balancing or fancy routing/sharing.  I need double
(or more) the bandwidth for a single application (single TCP connection).

If required, we can have linux/bsd boxes we control at either end of the
links.

If it's not possible, does anyone have any other ideas for somehow getting
better bandwidth out of 500m POTS wires (quantity 4)?

Thanks!
_______________________________________________
Roundtable mailing list
Roundtable@muug.mb.ca
http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable


_______________________________________________
Roundtable mailing list
Roundtable@muug.mb.ca
http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable


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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 08:09:32 -0500
From: Adam Thompson <athompso@athompso.net>
To: Continuation of Round Table discussion <roundtable@muug.mb.ca>,
        Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca>, MUUG RndTbl
        <roundtable@muug.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: [RndTbl] aggregating dsl lines
Message-ID: <2F92160B-19B2-43A4-8967-559126E86017@athompso.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


This is an active area of research, particularly with the advent of multi-path TCP.
Presently, however, you have to hide the two-link-ness from the TCP layer, and essentially from the IP layer as well.
ECMP would work, as long as both lines are the same (this does not hold true as a dynamic assertion with DSL technology, *ever*).
LACP will *not* work.
If you have Linux boxes at both ends, you can use mod_bonding in its round-robin mode... I've done that in the past and it does work.

Far more effective, however, would be to upgrade to a symmetric VDSL2 setup that supports DSL bonded pairs.
That'll set you back around $600+ per end, IIRC, replaces both the DSLAM and the DSLR, but makes your problems go away by turning all the copper into a single Ethernet link.

I just worked with someone else on this kind of setup, I'll see if I can find the links...

-Adam

On September 29, 2015 4:18:54 AM CDT, Trevor Cordes <trevor@tecnopolis.ca> wrote:
Is it possible to aggregate DSL lines, to combine them to get X-times
the
bandwidth on a single link?  In this situation, I control both ends,
the
DSLAM and the DSL modem side on the other end of some POTS runs
(CAT3-ish
I assume, or worse).

Note, I don't want load balancing or fancy routing/sharing.  I need
double
(or more) the bandwidth for a single application (single TCP
connection).

If required, we can have linux/bsd boxes we control at either end of
the
links.

If it's not possible, does anyone have any other ideas for somehow
getting
better bandwidth out of 500m POTS wires (quantity 4)?

Thanks!
_______________________________________________
Roundtable mailing list
Roundtable@muug.mb.ca
http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable

_______________________________________________
Roundtable mailing list
Roundtable@muug.mb.ca
http://www.muug.mb.ca/mailman/listinfo/roundtable



--
John Lange
www.johnlange.ca